We go to work, we eat, are entertained or entertain others with movies, music, tv, drama and comedy, we party with friends, couple, have sex, yet behind all our activities lurks the question, why do we exist? What is it all about? Why should there be life rather than not? And why us—why are we the ones who should be alive?
I think it is fair to say that this is the ultimate religious question. All of our major religions have a “story” whose purport is to answer it.
It’s likely that humans are the only species on earth who asks such a question of themselves. That observation itself, that we alone ask the question of existence, is often thought to be a clue to the answer. Perhaps other animals fail to ask why they are alive because they have no “higher purpose”; perhaps we ask because we sense that we do. That we even wonder about such things could itself be evidence that there is something “untold” about our lives, that there is “something more”.
Before continuing, let’s ask ourselves what kind of answer could ever satisfactorily resolve this question of “why?”.
Imagine God asking himself (itself/herself)
Why do I exist? What is my purpose?
For God, what could the answer be to such a query? What is it that makes God’s existence meaningful for God?
If we try to address this question from God’s point of view (rather than our own) we are likely to conclude that no possible answer could do God justice. God doesn’t have a “higher purpose” because God is the higher purpose. God doesn’t yearn for “more” because God is the “more”.
God doesn’t have to ask why his life is meaningful, or what makes it meaningful, because God is the source of meaning itself. If your life is the source of meaning, it makes no sense—indeed there is no need—to ask why or whence.
The Meaning of Meaning
But to understand this, let’s look at what it means to be meaningful. Words, as we know, are (usually) meaningful, but what makes them meaningful? Their meaning derives from the fact that they reference—that is to say, they point to—something in the world. Sometimes, to be sure, words only point to other words which point to other words and so on. But eventually there are real, existing things being pointed at which are the source of meaning (even if only in a pretend way, as in fiction), or else the whole pile of words signifies nothing.
Put simply, something is meaningful if it points at something else which serves as its source of meaning. Thus a theist would say that our human lives are meaningful because they point back to a source of meaning in God. But notice a peculiar consequence of this. Unless there is a greater God who is God’s source—and by definition there isn’t—God’s life isn’t meaningful. God has nothing to point back to for a source of meaning.
In this sense in which we use the word meaningful, if applied to God’s case we have to admit that God is not meaningful. God’s existence doesn’t reference something else. This follows because God is a source of meaning, something which meaningful things reference, and not something whose existence references elsewhere.
To our God asking himself what makes his life meaningful, the correct response would be,
God, you don’t understand—that question doesn’t apply to you because you are not meaningful but a source of meaning.
And what if the question doesn’t apply to us either? What if it makes no sense to ask the why questions about our existence because, like God, we are sources of meaning, because our living does not reference elsewhere.
Unexplainable Us
It’s not even that we must create meaning for ourselves, as Sartre maintained. After all, do we imagine God making up stories about himself, creating “reasons” for his existence? It would be unnecessary. Existence doesn’t need meaning, and the attempt to apply “meaning” can only bring it down a notch. Real beings exist; they don’t exist for a reason.
In fact, reasons are only explanations. They come afterward, when we want to talk about things. When we want ideas to work with. Just as it would demean God to say he exists for the purpose of bringing us into the world and furthering our human careers, so it demeans us to say that God created us to carry out some grand plan of his. Meanings & explanations turn us into mere tools. To say we need a meaning is to say—beforehand—that we are tools for something else. It makes us illegitimate, makes us important for someone else, rather than important within.
All such efforts stem from the mistaken trap of believing that thought can legitimize existence. It never can.
We can smother ourselves in explanations (as we smother everything else)—and they are useful (extremely useful when the scientific method is followed)—but explanations can never justify usefulness itself, or justify us in our lives.
We are not the sort of things that need be or ever can be explained. We simply are.
De-Valuing the Body
What is curious is that theists cannot accept the possibility of bodily life being valuable on its own. From the natural perspective, this is difficult to comprehend. The atheist wonders how one could not see bodily life as inherently valuable. How can value not be embodied?
The answer is that theism derives from an incomprehensible but long-standing tradition of splitting body from soul, with all value assigned to the soul side of the equation. The body is devalued “by definition,” which means the theist faces a logically-defined barrier to identifying our bodies as valuable.
As one theist explained to me years ago,
The soul, the personality, is actually the being, not the body. The body is the mere tool or the puppet of the soul to be used for playing the game, and for communication. The truth is that you don’t need a body to experience joy and pleasure. Actually the pleasures that can be had on a ‘body’ level are quite low level when compared to the spiritual ones of serenity and exhilaration.
Life, the soul, the being, can exist with or without the body, but the body without the soul is little more than a hunk of meat with no goals, no hope, no desires, no personality. It is in short ‘dead’ for all practical purposes, except for that it can breath and perform the physical functions of life. —John Kendrix, Seekers BBS, Atlanta, GA, 11/14/1988, Msg# 6476, To: The Atheist, Re: Bodies (spelling corrected)
Kendrix’s devaluation of the body demonstrates the pernicious (if not outright evil) influence of spirituality. It represents a viewpoint endemic to theism, which effectively sets believers up for a life bordering on depression, unmoored from any stable source of value. Within its framework, God is essential of course, and in this sense devaluation of the body serves the religious priesthood well.
Yet God’s role is a disturbing one here, for deity serves as a last-ditch effort to introduce a stable and enduring source of value for our lives, a desperate way to make some kind of sense of life and why we exist as bodies.
But you can’t make sense of why we exist as bodies by denying that we are bodies or denying that bodies are valuable. And you can’t deny the body’s centrality to life and at the same time live and feel with any kind of sanity or moral ground. The problem is that adding God doesn’t make sense of things. A bodiless God, brought in to be the ground of life, is anything but grounded. Inevitably God floats off in the realm of non-existence, weightless, groundless, absurd.
The core problem with God is that he has no body, and therefore no way to move or exist, no way to be valuable, much less to serve as a source of value for us. A disembodied mind—whether God’s or ours—can’t bring value to life.
It takes a body for that.
Getting Rid of the Middleman
The natural world view enhances our inherent value because it removes the “middleman”—God—which has separated us from our worthiness. Many claim that nature without God leads to despair and loss of intrinsic value to life, but in reality we ought to be delighted to be able to dispense with the middleman. Without God, ultimate worth comes back to bodily life itself.
Remove God from your world view and everything that matters gets redirected to life.
If we think of ourselves as natural, and of the natural world view as one that folds God into nature, then we see that atheism can only enhance our worth as human beings. Naturalism eliminates God, but more importantly it eliminates the need for God. It brings value—everything we value—home to our bodies. Home to us.
You probably think we evolved from monkeys too… God is everywhere and our purpose here is to delight in His ways. The thought of there being no higher power out there does not make a bit of sense. Read the Bible and see for yourself…how many prophecies have been fullfilled. Don’t deny the truth. You’ll live a much harder life without God in control of it. Christ is your strength, not yourself. Thinking YOU have all the power from within yourself is exactly what the Devil wants you to believe so you turn away from the true entity that created you…and who loves you so very much. I pray for you… :)
Thanks for the comment. I don’t think humans evolved from monkeys but I do accept the scientific evidence (which is pretty overwhelming) that humans and monkeys evolved from a common ancestor.
You write that “the thought of there being no higher power out there does not make a bit of sense” but you don’t reveal your reasoning. What is it exactly that doesn’t make sense about atheism? Which passages in the Bible explain the flaws of evolution or identify the logical missteps behind holding a natural view of our existence? You mention prophecies, but can you explain how stories written by humans centuries ago prove the existence of God? Or the existence of the devil for that matter?
Brian,
You are the type of Christian that compelled Ghandi to say, “Oh, I don’t reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It’s just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ.” While I don’t entirely agree with all of Rastaban’s views, your thinking is very elementary in that you don’t seem to connect the dots. I have grown up in the church and I know the lines they feed church members from youth, “prophecies fulfilled,” “saying that there are no absolutes is an absolute,” but really all of these ‘comebacks’ are just excuses for not having better answers to atheism. Do you even understand, scientifically, the theory of evolution?
God wants us to love one another, to love your nieghbor, ect. If we don’t love one another, and don’t follow in Gods word, then we go to hell. So basically if you think about it in a christian perspective, it’s like a big game. Your born, you live, and you die, you either go to heaven or you go to hell. So did god put us here to see if we go to heaven or hell? Are we some kind of tool, to live in his word or we go to hell? Why are inocent kids, starving, dying slowly and painfully from diseases and plagues? What does God want the helpless to do? How can they live in his name when they are dying. What about the kids who don’t even know who God is? They just go to hell when they die? It just doesn’t make sense to me. There has to be more.
Ok … as philosophy is want to do, asking one major question like “why are we here” begs me to ask more; like what is our conciousness, and where does the bodies energy go when it ceases to be contained in the body, and if there are spaces for this energy to collect…. does it reform, can energy contain conciousness, or can conciousness contain energy? Does our conciousness contain power? I’m sure mine has power over me and it watches me…. effects my choices. And then I have to ask how did all the great laws of nature come into being, like gravity, and energy, and motion, and light…. and if we actually understood these laws do we become masters of them? Are they able to be manipulated? Can we or someone create new laws?
I think one problem we have with maintenance of our bodies is lack of understanding about universal laws, and also maintenence of different components of “happiness” are dependent upon rather simple social laws which seemingly are related to more universal laws. At least I’m opening it up here… feel free to step in and interact, or connect, or how is nature connected…got energy? :) I love it!
Anyway, Rastaban, I was digging your groove until you started to throw out a big chunk of pie…. what a waste man, just because some people take a big concept (like God or Nature) and put little words and little meanings to it which get manipulated by MEN in POWER doesn’t mean you ditch the dessert! If you want to call it power (or whatever you want to call it) and I want to call it pie, what law are we breaking?
You see..the problem here is that the human brain is trying to understand itself and the only limitation it faces is itself. Let me make some sense here…Whatever you can comphrened or lets call this ‘conciousness’ is limited by the faculties or the processing power of the brain..so the human brain cannot think outside of the rules it was designed (by..God?…lets hold on to this for now) to think.
There is a plane or level of conciousness that the human brain can’t exceed..does this sound impossible?..not quite..lets understand by some examples
1. Single cell organell (Amoeba) – Does’nt know that it exists, so forget about it asking the question “why I exist”?
2. A bit higher form of life – Animals (Dog) – Knows that it exists, cannot think about why it exists.
3. Lets go higher on the brain development – Humans – Knows they exist, can ask this question why they exist?..but cannot answer this question – – Maybe we need to go one level higher on the conciousness scale to answer that question.
4. I am extrapolating this thought here – God(???) -Knows why he exists or for that matter – what exactly it is to exist – or what is the purpose of life.
So here the fundamental flaw is exposed and the singularity/anamaly revelaed….
Our brain is not capable of understanding its own existence…for the lay man..i’ll give an example..The musk deer has an exotic fragrance coming from its belly..that musk fragrance drives it crazy..it tries desperately to find out where that smell is coming from..but it does’nt know that the smell is coming from within itself.
Similarly, we cannot comphrend certain things..maybe we were not equipped with sufficient mental faculties to understand the meaning of our exisistance…but then there are few exceptions/anamalies/singularities…like Jesus/Mohammad/Buddha/Rama…they were the ones who could rise to that one level higher and may have understood the true meaning of our existance…
THEORIES FROM THE BIG BANG, EVOLUTION, PANSPERMIA, HAVE FLAWS AND CANNOT EXPLAIN OUR EXISTANCE COMPLETELY, RELIGION ALSO SEEMS TO HAVE GAPS IN IT’S STORY. HOWEVER ME GIVEN A CHOICE BETWEEN ASSUMING A GOD A LIVING WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT THERE ISNT ONE I CHOOSE THE LATER AND IF I AM WRON I’M NO WORSE OFF THAN THE ATHEIST BUT IF IM RIGHT THAN I FEEL FOR THOSE WHO CHOSE TO IGNORE THE SOUL. WE EXIST BECAUSE WE EXIST. THOSE PEOPLE WHO CHOSE TO LIVE THERE LIFE FOR GOD SEEM TO BE MORE PEACEFULL MORE CARING AND JUST MORE PLEASANT WHILE THOSE WHO FOLLOW THE EVOLUTIONARY MODEL SEEM BENT ON GENOCIDE, POWER AND CONTROL FOR EXAMPLE STALIN, HITLER
Garrett Johns…I take your put downs as a complement on my faith. I respect all opinions but I am definitely on fire for the Lord Our God and won’t hesitate to state what I believe in. I’m sorry that you are still confused with whether to believe evolution or not when there are clearly many flaws in the “theory of evolution” now more than ever…and increasing as the years progress. I do question some specific things about my existance that I do not have answers for, but the Bible which I whole-heartedly believe in states that there are many mysteries that we will not find the answers to until we are in heaven ourselves. We could rack our brains trying to figure out how God came about to be, where exactly Heaven is, if there other forms of life out there…etc, etc…but we probably will not get clear-cut answers to half of the things we question because of the limitations of dimensions that God made us aware of while we are “living” here on Earth. I suggest you read the Bible from front to back and then compare its facts against evolutionary theory. I haven’t met a single person who has done that and hasn’t eventually chosen the later to trust in. There are countless of prophecies in the Bible…I don’t even know where to begin…that have already been fulfilled – but one huge thing sets True Christianity apart from any other believe/religion…and that is Jesus. He is the only “prophet” who claimed that He WAS God and rose up from the dead proving that in fact. No other religion has the link to God the Father who is Jesus. Accepting Jesus as your Lord and savior is the only way to enter the kingdom of Heaven according to the Bible. I’ll put my heart and my soul on Jesus and the growing truths of Bible to live my life by rather than anything else that claims that there is another way to believe but doesn’t brush the surface of the truths of the one and only Bible (Old Testament & New).
I didn’t choose to be born so can’t choose to die
Its a simplistic statement (i can choose to die anytime!! but this choice comes after infanthood) and full of fallacies (What is I ? Choose? Born (aggregation of atoms,quarks or something more fundamental)? Die?).
Language is a wonderful invention but it pains me to put my thought into words :) I haven’t read your post and am just posting my thoughts.
Correction ‘I haven’t read your “blog” ‘ and the latter part is obvious. :)
After skimming through your thoughts about “devaluation of body” i propose a thought experiment (not original). Start cutting off your body parts….. When do u expect to loose a ‘sense’ of self ? I agree that your ‘sense’ would significantly change without some of the inner constituents but the question is how far can one go?
The comment mentioning ‘Amoeba’ is worth pondering over but lets just leave that for the scientists to figure out!!!
I dont understand atheism ( i m not religious btw whatever that means!).
A random comment on this blog —
Christians are the real nonbelievers. Whereas to love life means to love mortality. Not to love death and pain and dying, but to love the fact that we are capable of dying. For mortality is the very thing that makes life so overwhelmingly valuable. As no God could ever be. As immortality could never make us. —Dwight Lyman
The gentleman( god! (:)) am i trying to project my civility) so easily slips in the words “love”,”value” (concepts created by or inherent to human????) which to me are confounding.
Anonymous…it sounds like you are very confused and really have no idea what Christianity is about. I suggest you read the Bible for some food for thought. Who knows…it might turn out to be the best thing you’ve ever read :)
I believe that the question, “Why are we alive?” can be answered but it will only be revealed to the one seeking diligently for the answer to that question. and the answer certainly will not be easily put into words.
The question is absurd…
To ask why are we alive..you need to define ‘Alive’..and thats where the fundamental problem lies…and the cosmic duality appears..duality is the essence of human life..to define something as alive, you have to bring in ‘death’..so the essential definition of being alive is ‘not being dead’..but then can you really define death???
If your definition of being alive is an organism that 1. breathes, moves, feels, reproduces..then there are exceptions to this..there are viruses which can be classified as being dead and alive at the same time..and whenever you say alive or life..it essentially means ‘life as you see on earth or as your brain can comphrend it’ there might be levels and possibilites of existence which our brain is not capable of identifying as alive…so, we come to our main point..what is being alive???…unless you anwer this..asking why are we alive is absurd…is it not!
Brian has bought wholeheartedly into the simple prescriptive from our organized religions. “You don’t understand everything, and you won’t. Just trust me, and I’ll tell you everything later.” Sounds like a scam to me. But you are being a good little sheep and believing all you are told, so you will be smiled upon by church members. You are a stereotypical Christian, so if that was your life goal, you’re there.
I will agree that the little snippets of ‘wisdom’ you spouted are completely adangle, without any real logic or knowledge behind them. My strongest suggestion would be to read other ‘holy’ books besides the bible. Check out Horus, essentially the prototype for your Jesus character. Christianity is simply another tired, unoriginal retelling of a tale told since recorded history and probably since the dawn of man.
Did everyone before the birth of Christianity go to hell?
I truly believe this: The simple fact that our brains can ask the question “Why am I alive?” certainly does NOT mean it can answer that question. I think that it is ridiculously arrogant to believe our tiny, tiny minds can even remotely fathom life, the universe, etc. Humans are really big on arrogance, I have learned.
Humans are definitely different than other animals on the earth, but that does not mean we are supreme beings. In fact, we may not be ‘above’ other animals — Maybe these other creatures have realized that asking “Why am I alive?” creates an endless, tortuous loop in the mind that never resolves.
…Or maybe THEY know why they are alive and are at liberty to simply live, and WE are the ones who are completely out of touch with the answer, or even with the question itself.
The question is moot. No one gets to understand all of this. We never, ever will. Get used to that idea. That’s the one we universally face, regardless of race, creed, or color.
To Gabe, God is the shepherd of the sheep so thanks for the compliment. I never claimed to understand everything and I am not going to drive myself crazy trying to read God’s mind either. I am however not scared to believe the overwhelming amount of factual truth to what the Bible presents. I am not in denial of facts which are laid out in front of me and present evidence to the best of human knowledge about “why we are ‘alive’ “. It sounds like first of all you have never read the Bible (like 99% of the people who I come across with responses similar to yours about belief in the Bible) Secondly I sounds like you have bought into the warped idea of corrupt Christianity being what TRUE Christianity is really about. I really don’t care about what man smiles upon me as long as I am living my life to the best of my abilities according to what the biggest book of truth aka the BIble says. No other “holy book” has a prophet who claims He is God/the son of God and proves it by conquoring death of the physical body! Maybe you should crack open that book you destest so much and see if it is as irrational as you think. Do some wholehearted research to the truths, prophecies, just the plain and simple FACTS it presents realated to human life and I guarantee you will be astonished at what you find if not covinced that is is the ONLY truth presented to us humans that makes sense to live by. I pray that you open up your heart a little to the idea of Jesus Christ being our Savior…you might be surprised at the positive change that happens in your life. If you cracked open that book you put down so much you would actually find out that God Himself tells us humans that we cannot fathom what life is all about – that our “tiny” minds CAN NOT comprehend the bigger plan that he has for us. How am I being arrogant by claiming that I do NOT know all the mysteries of life and about Gods plan for the universe? You are being so quick to put others down but in turn you are making yourself look like the foolish one claiming that you KNOW that the Bible is NOT a God’s word for us to live by despite is endless facts, truths, and prophecies which have come true….and are still coming true to date – proving theories of evolution, and others claiming factual truth more and more wrong with SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE. To address Abhay’s comment, I definitely feel where you are coming from in your view on this question as a whole. The Bible yet again in fact addresses the subject of what being alive is — According to Gods word there is physical life here on our planet -Earth- but there are other dimensions, or realms if you may, of life…those of which we have not been shown full understanding of. The realm/state of “life” which we go/are present in after our physical body “dies” is a mystery in a of ways but I sure would rather bet on God’s plan for our “physical life” being true rather than dispute it and end up in a neverending state of suffering in the next state of “exsistence” that I’m in. It’s actually not that hard when you really try a least a little to understand God’s point of view according to what the Bible says. We are God’s children who He loves and cares for. You wouldn’t be in this existance if it weren’t for God. He want’s you to prosper and life with Him in peace and harmony for all eternity without any kind of suffering. If this does not appeal to you then I pray for your soul. We are alive to give glory to our creator in all that we do–a creator who I do believe wholeheartedly we WILL meet in some time…and in some state/dimension of our “lives”…and this is all coming from a Christian perspective. On another note, check out http://www.leestrobel.com which is a very inspirational site about a man who conformed from Atheism to Christianity because of the scientific fact He found researching the “stories” in the Bible.
each human is a part of a complete soul.We are immortal!
we should try to find the signs of our life,each one notonly does human has a responsibility in this world butalso human ought to find their way.
There issomething inside of each person that can attract him to find the way.
God is now here!
There are points to this that I really find interesting. Before I say anything further I’m just going to point out what my background is. I grew up in the Christian belief but at this current moment I have some serious doubts. So as of recent I no longer consider myself a Christian but I don’t consider myself an atheist. I’m just someone trying to find the “Right Answer” if you will. So bare with me.
Ok, here’s what I’m going to say first. First off, I’m not going to inherently believe everything or anything that this or any writer has to say because I personally won’t agree with all the points. I’m basically picking apart each point of view and trying to find truth and fault in its thinking. I will in a way, treat this like I treat the Christians’ point of view. By this I mean, I’m viewing these articles I read as an argument by which I will eventually come to a conclusion.
Since I don’t want to take anyone’s time when it comes to reading my opinions on the whole Christian/Religion view vs Atheism, I invite anyone to shoot me an email because I have no problem discussing this stuff because I’m really interested in it. I posted my email in that comment area but just in case it doesn’t show up, here’s my email.
Ebag90@gmail.com
But I will comment on the comments :)
First off, Brian, I would suggest you look more into Christianity and into your own religion. If possible, I would like you to send me an answer to this question.
“why do you believe?”
I would like to point out that referencing the Bible or prophecies will do absolutely nothing for your case since anyone who is not Christian will not take the Bible as anything but a book. So telling people to read the Bible and find truth is basically asking someone to read the book and believe what it says which won’t work for most people.
I will agree with the fact that any religion takes some degree of blind belief or “faith”. It’s simply impossible without it because if there was some concrete proof there wouldn’t be so much controversy.
However, I’m going to have to say about the same thing for Atheists. Being believers that there is no God, you too have to put some degree of “faith” into your belief simply because there is no concrete way to put religion down as a possibility.
So although this article on one of the big questions has interesting points, I’ll have to agree with the other Gabe in that this is one of the questions we won’t ever know. :)
The reason why this might be a problem in my opinion is that humans, as Abhay and Brian put it, just don’t have the capacity to understand itself and why it exists. Brian states that our human brain is so small in comparison to “GOD” that we just simply can’t grasp the bigger plan. sounds reasonable if we were to assume God existed…
Atheists I believe have a problem with this simply because they don’t believe in anything that doesn’t have form. So when God doesn’t have a body or evidence of his existence, it negates the whole bigger picture plan simply because we are not able to see it. And since this is an argument for Atheism, it’s the same as an argument for Christianity. It’s trying to make sense of things. And I have to admit it’s hard to make any sense out of something you theoretically can’t grasp and physically can’t see or feel.
I am in complete accord with Gabe on most ideas he presents…not to call them facts because for believers they are not.
Anyways, I think that there is no GOD… or higher power as you all say, first of all there is no proof of this GOD, this might seem as an Atheists point of vue but its not.
I have developped another theory about religion, all of them. Hear me out, If we look at all the religions, they all have a “GOD” in some sorts… they cant denie it… they all pray to something better, something they dont see, something they think exists. So, this is the common facter between all the religions, so its what im going to base my theory on. I mostly believe, that religion whas created by a group of philosophes, who wanted to impose the “good” way of life upon humans, so they created the idea of higher power, its the ultimate idea because higher power cant be questioned. So again, these men would have make all these rules to folow, and if so they would “grant” you something, heaven etc…
Another thing id like to say, is that there are only 2 mysteries to man…Not that much considering all the things we know …
Where did we come from? & Where are we going?
Even thought i propose my theory, i accept the fact that i will never know the answer, and my doing this am only trying to find the most logical answer. Thats a fact ! That most religious people dont understand…They all believe in God at 100%…Witch is absurbe… There is no concret proof…againt returning on Atheists fundamentals…. The day God will comme and shake my hand and do a miracle in from of me…I will bow down to him.
Until that day, I believe in what makes sense…
Anyways, we shounld let beliefs get into the way of evolution, we should thrive forward knowing something and wanting nothing.
I leave you with this…
Judeo-Christian-Islamic believers
You are told to fear your god. and to love your god. then why…
1 John 4:18 (King James Version)
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
If you believe the bible to be the infallible word of god then why…
Ezekiel 20:25 (King James Version)
Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
Why is the order of creation found in the bible almost the exact opposite of the know scientific theories?
Genesis 1:1 – 2:3
(I wont paste these for lack of space/time)
If your are so overwhelming anti-evolution then why did god let the “EARTH bring forth…”
Genesis 1:11 (Not King James Version)
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so
The list of counterfactuals within the word of god is outstanding. I, for one, HAVE read the bible from front to back… and no, it wasn’t the best thing I have ever read. I am a product of the church. I am a former believer. I know your defense will be “it’s a matter of faith.” Your faith is what is in question. Your need to feel loved by something/someone greater than yourself… Your need to believe that you will see the ones you love after they have passed away (and that you will exist after you pass away)… The fact that you are reliant on an abstract theory as the basis for your life… all are in question. YOU are weak… Not the ones you believe are in need of god’s love. I’ll leave you with this:
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer gods than you do. When you understand why YOU dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
— Stephen Roberts
This was already my opinion actually, im happy to find this.
i would like to make a few statement to all you silly christians x)
if i write down this next statement.
“Australia shall be destroyed” (im not racist , was a country i thought of replace it with england USA Russia whatever)
if within the next 2000 years this comes true, does that make me a prophet? No? oh.. i thought that was what God did.
oh wait… The bible wasnt written by God, it was written by a load of Looneys following some random guy. IF!! tht even happened….
you all critise other cults which have things like a turnip as their god or something, but yours is a book. Dont deny it, a book? or a Turnip? does it matter? no… “This book came from god, the turnip did not.” < – – no thats your belief “from the book.” If this random book didnt say that, what would make it wrong to believe in the turnip?
What reason are here for? are we created to stop something happening? why doesnt God stop it? almighty and all powerful being cant stop somehting happening, doesnt sound almighty.
are we here to find out something that god couldnt? then he is not the alknowing god you claim him to be.
are we here for purely NO reason at all, just for god to watch and toy with? if so then i dislike God’s intentions. if we are here to make god happy by making us happy thorugh the joy of helping others, this sounds good. But tht is a selfish desire, many people wish they were not born because of starvation or depression or pain of suffering. They did not deserve that because of God’s choice to make us.
If god is all knowing and creates us from the begining to know our lives from start to finish, he knows what we will do and how to stop it. but he doesnt, he continues to make tht person. If this is true with Adam and Eve, then he just set them up to fail and have an excuse to punish all of us, the ancestors.
you know there are so many reasons why God doesnt exist that all my past ideas i have forgotten because of their number, also im lazy and cant be asked to type more.
anyway, despite all this i still think that there is something watching us. but in my own belief i think tht each of us has something of our own. not one big one. i say this because i am a very lucky person, and when i ask for something , it happens. there are those that still happen when i dont want them to, and they turn out for the best anyway or just doesnt change anything. im a very lucky person and i always have this feeling of being watched.
so maybe God isnt there, but a part of God is with each of us.
but basically, you fucking christians are freaking numptys. get over yourselfs and stop following a nursey rhyme.
final paragraph. adults say to anime fans or their children, why do u still watch cartoons? or why do u still do this childish thing? believing in the tooth fairy for a 18 year old is considered a bit childish and babyish. but if i went to some 40 year old and asked, you still believe in god then? “yes, why?” oh i thought u might have grown out of believing everything you read in children’s books.
yh, book filled with short stories revolving around one hero each filled with morals. sound familiar? thats because its in almost every children’s book outnow. btw many now believe that religion is made to keep ppl in line or to support those on the edge of suicide, giving them a reason to live. try not to let yourself become dependant on that sort of thing. do the smart thing while you can.
TheNameOfYourNextGod…you are a very confused soul. I pray for God to clear the blinders from your eyes. I hope that one day you stop being “lazy” as you confessed that you are…and actually read through the Bible. You’ll be surprised what you find. It might actually make a little sense to you. :) The sad thing is that 99% of people on here calling the Bible a book of nursery rhymes haven’t ever even opened up the book for themselves. Shows how much the devil influces people to shun God and use “human nature” to just conclude that we are our own Gods closing their minds to the truth of our creator.
Cults.
Lies.
Religion.
Don’t follow in the path of others.
I believe and hope there is something after life, what i don’t know. But it is too big for us to comprehend.
If there is nothing…
what can you do.
I wanted to end my life at one point..but then i found love. love from others and for life in general.
The thought of “why am i alive” “why is there anything” and “what happens when i die” sends me into an aweful place. I can’t breathe and nothing feels real. Some say its a panic attack, because i lose my balance with whats happening in the world.
Religion. People are always trying to convert you to their beliefs. But what if, WHAT IF they are wrong. And there is nothing..
I don’t believe others should push their beliefs in your face.
In life as long as your happy with what you believe in, other people should feel the need to make you follow their path.
The bible..you say read it and believe. The bible has been changed. It has been revised by people as the years past. And what was once said has been so altered that the truth in what was once written is gone.
Damnation. Hell. These are now what exist of your “holy book”
–If this is somehow true, im sorry, but you would have to be the best damn person in the world to be admitted into heaven.
Explain to me why Jesus hasn’t come back. Genocide. Death. Pain. Poverty. Injustice. Rape. There has been world wars. Atomic Bombs. holocausts. civil wars.
I believe in there being something after this life. But..Not a GOD or a DAMNATION TO HELL. something unexplainable. beautiful in every fucking way. After this comment is done.. you will say, your going to hell. You need to convert to our religion and be saved.
a world population of 6 billion people… And most of them believe in there is a god. of somesort.
We’re a disease. a cancer of this planet. with out growth we do not think we destroy more. The architects of our own demise.
this world would be better off without us. think about it.
you can believe in your religion.
I will live everyday of my life the fullest extent.
I will treat the love of my life, my friends and family in the best way i possibly can.
I love them all. I will enjoy the remaining years of my life knowing they love me too.
Quit the hatred towards others and trying to convert people.
I will leave you now with 3 words. 3 words that help me go out and manage to make it through everyday.
Live. Love. Die.
(my hope is in the devotion of there being something, life is beautiful and should be enjoyed everday. Because what if there is nothing)
–Spades
Now what if there is something… I’d rather believe that there is a heaven than the latter and be sorry than I didn’t accept Jesus into my heart when I had the chance. That is not the main reason that I believe though. The evidence…the CASE for Christ Jesus is stronger than ever — and I’m talking because of scientific evidence that is proving the Bible more right and Darwins theories false more and more as the years go by! I don’t have ANY hatred towards others. Jesus loved even sinners just as much as the “most holy” people in the world. Also Christianity is based upon faith and forgiveness. Jesus forgave and you do NOT have to be the “best damn person in the world” to be admitted into heaven. Just ask for forgivness of your sins and accept God/Jesus into your life…into your heart — which isn’t a bad thing at all! To live without God in your heart giving you wisdom for your every move is to live alone and be on your own in the Devil’s playground. It’s your choice though! I don’t hate you for anything you choose, just sharing my thoughts on things from much research, evidence that has convinced me to become a Christian. Now your statement “I will live everyday of my life the fullest extent. I will treat the love of my life, my friends and family in the best way i possibly can.I love them all. I will enjoy the remaining years of my life knowing they love me too.” is what I believe in too! You talk like Christians…people who believe in the the Bible are closed minded and closed off to living their life to the fullest. If anything Christianity has freed me from the bondage of the Devil’s lies… The lies that try to fool people into thinking that whatever “feels right or feels good” is the right thing to believe in or to do. Living like that will bring you the consequence of much more than hell after you die but a hell right here while you live on Earth! I could go on and on…but I was in your position once and I truly feel like my eyes have opened up to a whole new world of FREEDOM, EXCITEMENT, and LOVE knowing the truth of Jesus Christ and His unconditional love for us ALL.
I use to go to church. And the beginning it was good. But, as time went by i questioned why we all had to kneel before this being. What if he didn’t exist. What if we were kneeling to nothing.
I don’t understand how there could be a god. Why would god give people free will..if he knew what chaos it would bring to the world. So many choose evil. They kill and torture.
I’ve seen loved ones pass. The blankness. There eyes go empty.
“How can Gospels which were not written until a hundred and fifty years after Christ is supposed to have died, and which do not rest on any trustworthy testimony, have the slightest value as evidence that he really lived?”
there wasn’t even a single line written about jesus when he was alive. I don’t understand, how is the explainable.
He could of just been a man, that did good. He could of just been a normal man characterized on his overall good towards others. But in the end he met a violent death.
Why do you follow in the path of everyone else Brian?
I believe there is a greater purpose to all of this. But it doesnt lie in man-kind it has to be something else. Something. what it is..i don’t know.
And what if both are beliefs are completely wrong.
And when we meet death there is nothing.
It just ends.
But if you were right and there is a god. I doubt he’d take me. I’ve done too much wrong in my life.
–further reasoning to my denial behind his supposed exisitance
“what if this is all a dream”
–Spades
First of all…there is never too much wrong that Jesus Christ will not forgive. The Bible does not condemn but instead gives HOPE for a brighter future to anyone who seeks out and opens up their heart to the Lord. I’m glad you at least realize some of the “wrong” you have done in the past. That’s a first step to becoming a better person. I suggest you do more research into Christianity and the Bible though, because you talk as if though the facts are piled up against it when it’s actually the opposite in my eyes. Jesus physically died…and conquored death. Something no other prophet, “messenger of God” from any other religion has ever done. I’m sure you have heard all kinds of propaganda put forth against the Bible. It seems like you have your mind made up on what the truth is and what it isn’t…but I urge you not to stop there. I felt the same way you do for a long time, but never gave up my search for the truth. After many yrs of -scientific- research it is clear as day to me that the Bible is the blueprint for our lives. Sure there are small questions that I do still have but the big picture is clear as a summer’s day. Read Lee Strobel’s Case for Christ or Case for a Creator. Very interesting and informative books by an atheist turned Christian giving scientific evidence to back up the truth of what is written in the Bible. 100s of prophecies in the BIble have come true and are still happening to this day. Like I said before…I could go on and on about the different reasons why I am a Chrsitian but it will ultimately be up to you to make that choice for yourself. Just don’t give up the search for the truth if you are at all confused on who/what to turn to and dedicate your life to. Peace and love Spades. I will pray for your life to fill with even more love, peace, happiness, and sense of fulfillment than you could ever imagine and I hope you do the same for me! :) Take care…
How can one know what lies after life if they themselves have not yet died.
“christianity” and religion…a product of man-kind.
“I’d like to share a revelation that I’ve had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify our species and I realized that we’re not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but we humans do not. We move to an area and multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way we can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. We’re a plague.” –matrix
ONLY THE DEAD KNOWS IF THERE IS SOMETHING AFTER LIFE.
But I REFUSE to get on my knees. I REFUSE to follow everyone else. I REFUSE to be another product of “god”. I REFUSE to pray to a man who mostly likely never existed. I REFUSE to believe if there is an afterlife it is that of a human spirit. I REFUSE to convert to your religion and believe the lies that have been put upon you Brian…
YOU KEEP REFERENCING TO THERE BEING PROOF. There is no proof.
There is no proof behind science nor your precious religion.
I will dedicate my life to hope. Hope of something.
Brian, the same to you. Enjoy it while your here. You could be wrong.
I don’t know how I was made, i didn’t choose life. fuck.
–Spades
Ahh sorry was on holiday,
anyway, i suppose i would become a total hypocrite *spelling* if i said i dont like these sort of religious discussions, but sometimes you just feel there is no need. I understand your desire to protect and help share the pure joy of your own faith and belief, but please when answering the replies of those posting it would be nice if u could show how all of what was said is wrong or still in discussion or if what i have said is nonsense.
I say this pure because the only mater you commented on was the second last topic of the bible being a book similar to nursey rhymes and stories. what about the very import topic mentioned above that was continuing the original blog. What purpose did God have in creating us?
i can only see one thing in my mind with theknowledge of this thought. *i might be a narrow minded person but i hope not too bad* The bible is not finished or the bible is a set of commands without a reason or an explaination?
when i say this i mean it has told us what to do, but not why? if you answer me with, “So we can be forgiven of our sins and enter heaven for eternal happiness.” then please spare me.
heaven must be pretty crowded now if its easy to get in. and what about those of another religion, they will not believe in the christian god, they will refude him and wait for their’s. thus not being forgiven and entering hell. It is condeming other people’s way of life.
i suppose *yet again laziness applies* in a nutshell.
one possible theory is this.
A man is with his family, he goes to work and when he returns he finds that all of his family have been murdered… that afterwards some gang of men had raided his house and stolen all worth more then a penny. He is a kind man and in his heart, he forgives them.
He begins to wonder of some way to help promote this forgiveness and kind way of life in a last attempt to help the world be a better place.
He spends years if not a few decades writing a book telling the short stories of morals and meanings that all could understand. He evens creates a miraculous *spelling* main character in the hope that this will help boost the effect of the stories and the deep meanings.
he shows the book around and it helps his village, it becomes peaceful and without “sin”.
The people of the village in their kindness realise that the world WILL benefit from this teaching and spread the word, the book’s meaning and stories of the great main character. Soon the country is believing in this system, this guide to a peaceful and blissful life, all created through the use of the people’s perception of higher beings.
the meaning of my story is that, Christianity may or may no be the truth of the world. But I’m 100% positive that if everyone followed it, the world would be truley perfect and happy and a wonderful place.
but those with the urge for more in life and for exploration are living proof that the bible is not the true word of our world. If the Bible’s teaching were all we needed to be happy and to be content until we reached heaven then there would be no need to go further, and there would be no desire to do so. Basically the bible IS good and it IS what we should all follow, but , it’s never gonna happen.
please dont dismiss this theory as there is no possible evidence you have to prove this theory irrelevant. It IS a possibility and a likely one at that, simply because there is clearly thought behind the rules and the thinking methods, but it was never perfect and neither is the bible otherwise we would have nothing to ask about?
thanks for response btw =]
TheNameOfYourNextGod, your only evidence is that others follow it and so should you. You say it would make the world a better place. How is following a lie better than questioning. I believe the only reason you choose to follow in the path of christianity is that it makes the world a “wonderful place”
How is the bible good?
Because people follow it and believe in the lies of someone else?
You basically stated that anyone could make a book and that if you got people to follow it, inturn it could potentially be the next great belief of life after death. But, isn’t that just another lie? What you are saying is that you would willingly follow what the majority believes in because if EVERYONE believed in this one made up piece of crap that the world would be a better place.
You have an alright point other than the fact that even those who do believe in a god still do sick things. The world can not, and will not ever be perfect.
Your entire previous entry has nothing even mentioning what you truely believe lies after you die.
I would like to know is the bible/christianity something you follow just because it keeps people in line (slaves) or because your truely believe that their is a distinct afterlife [either heaven or hell]
-Spades
oh my fucking god… Spades, you are the definition of the word Idiot…. I do not believe in the bible, my comment was not addressing you, and i was showing how the bible IS a load of bullshit and stating how it is not perfect and nothing ever is!
you fucking RETARD!! i actually cant believe i just read that! Please actually “read” my comment? please actually try…
P.S. Brian? the comment was addressing YOU!
TheNameOfYourNextGod…first of all, you seem to have a lot of anger built up inside you goin of on Spades who just misunderstood much of your comment… You say, the “bible is not the true word of our world”… In a way you’re right! The world was given to the DEVIL to roam free on and deceive us… I am not from this “world”…and do look foward to an eternity in heaven with our creator, in a “world” without pain or suffering. It really sounds like you have not read much if any of the Bible by the way you write. Im not trying to be rude, but if you read the Bible you would see that there IS MOST LIKELY MUCH MUCH MORE to things than just what the Bible says. The Bible talks about there being many mysteries of God that we will only find out when we die…so in a sense the Bible is incomplete. But to explain ever purpose and ever detail to God’s being would probably be too much to write or even comprehend with our minds! I consider myself a Christian but am constintly finding out new scientific evidence proving things in the Bible as more specific truths! If that is not looking for “MORE” in life, then I don’t know what is… If you consider “having fun” and “looking for more” exploring other religious beliefs or just “doing what feels good”…without thought of the consequences (HERE ON EARTH) I have gone through a time in my life where I did that and let me tell…problems got worse, my life less fullfilled, and there was no true direction or sense of peace/happiness in my heart. I believe in the story of Christ for many reasons. I suggest you really open up a Bible and give it a chance. REALLY give it a chance… You might be surprised at what you find…and you might feel a peace and satisfaction with you own life never felt before. I wish you the best… God bless your life!
I just reread my post and I apologize for all the spelling errors… I’m sure you can still make sense out of it though! haha
Here are a few great websites to check out on your free time which go through tons of “scientific evidence” for God/Jesus! -Take care!
http://www.ankerberg.com/
http://www.leestrobel.com/
TheNameofYourNextGod — I enjoy how you said “Oh my fucking god” even though you were just arguing how you don’t believe in god.. thats cool i guess, whos the tard now?
Also clear straight to the point usuage of the english language makes for clarity.
-Spades
I dont know you as a person, but im guessing your pretty pathetic to go to the lengths of saying “haha you said oh my god, ha you contradicted yourself, ha ha…”
Yes i admit that my typing was bad I’ll keep that better now.
Just a quick pointer, saying oh my god is considered blasphemy (spelling, too lazy to search) and is not to be done by christians and the followers of god, I thought everyone knew that? My school when i was younger had a whole campaign on explaining why we should not say it. But whatever, we’re kinda on the same side here so battling is useless. Finally, as I’m sure your also aware, neither of us are stupid because we made the right decision on this whole God thing XD
…NOYNG
Now for Brian xP
Yes, I admit it. I have only looked through about half the bible due to being in Catholic Christian schools all my life. I will also admit that i did not even take those parts I saw seriously, and thus I am unaware of God and his being.
Now if we look into the human nature, we all search for something higher, we all search for a greater being (as i said earlier “for something more then we have”) but the resort to this inner feeling we have is not to write a book and pretend it is from a higher presence. The answer is to evolve and go to find that higher presence or to even beceom those higher presences. If it is not possible to “find” him, then i guess I will be searching for a very long time. But to me finding peace and satisfaction from a book of soemthing we do not know is the truth, shows a weak mind. Im guessing like alot of people that those children relying on a blanket for a good night’s sleep is childish, im guessing that you see full grown men addicted to drugs and claiming they need it to be happy as pitiful and see the situation as wrong.
Tell me why full grown men and women relying on a book of lies is not childish, pitiful and downright wrong! Please give me a reason.
sorry to sound so angry i guess its just how i type. I’m not really, this forum wont change my opinion. As you might say, “I am fine with myself and my beliefs. I am at peace.”
This is the most common reply from people who have never read the Bible from front to back and are confused on finding out the truth for themselves. You call the Bible a book of lies…but then say “I have only looked through about half the bible due to being in Catholic Christian schools all my life. I will also admit that i did not even take those parts I saw seriously, and thus I am unaware of God and his being.” I suggest you do more research on facts and scientific evidence in the Bible proving it to be more true and Darwinian theory less each and every year. Cheers
Ya sorry for being a dick Nameofyournextgod. Anyways, Brian you lose. Cheers!
-Spades
Yes, I’m Sorry, I overreacted in my comment and was out of order. Sorry Spades. =[
Brian, I was thinking yes your argument is clear… UNTIL!!
saying that the Darwin Theory is wrong. Now you really have lost the religious fight. Many, if not most christians will now admit the Darwin theory being the most likely and closest possible solution to our forming. I realise the general population is usually stupid and cannot make an answer for themselves, but they would not believe something with no evidence and no logic behind it. Your creation theory is as simple minded as the following experiment.
To test if spiders can feel vibrations through the hairs on its legs as its way of hearing, we shall bang the floor. The spider jumped. We now chop off its legs and do the same thing. The spider does not jump, therefore it must hear through the hairs on its legs from the lack of reaction.
Just for Clarification, that was a conducted experiment done by early scientists on animals. I think the flaw to that plan is pretty obvious. That is the same as your theory. “We are how we are because that is how it is. God did it.” I think that is too simple and has too many flaws.
So if we think logically, this does disprove the bible as the likeliest option and shows that christianity falls on its face. BUT!! then we have the whole “Well the bible is a book of parables and a general guide with the part about Jesus, etr, being true.” This is an answer, but this is not an answer that was in the bible to be known or else no one would follow the damn thing because its just a general guide with some story about some Man that healed people and brought peace.
ok, I am thinking of many other options that i could type and try to prove my point. But, as your aware there are other people like Spades who are reading and commenting this blog too. Notice that he has different arguements and different points to put forward. Surely this would show you just how wrong and unsufficent the bible is?
Finally, in the majority of my comments I have used a parable or a story or some other form of explaination or even mentioned soemthing that is valid and truful. You have only told me “There is many scientific discoveries of points proving Jesus and his Daddy” but so far i havent seen you mention even one of those discoveries. I do happen to know a few of them myself because i have had those occasional times of non laziness and I searched and read about them. Not many I admit, but a few. So please tell me a few more?
NoYNG
ahh..
PS I do not read the bible because I would have thought that reading half would have least shown me ONE good reason to read it all and live the rest of my life a christian. I was wrong.
Why do you care !
you spend so much of your life wasted wondering why we are here and if you found out wat difference would it make to you as a person
you should savour every single day that you have living on earth then wondering why your here in the first place because you never know when its your time to leave it.
lifes too short !
as you say life is short, and well personally mine is wayyy too long.
i will enjoy showing my belief as much as they show theirs by arguing on this forum. I also hope to save another soul from the chains of boundaries.
anyway, i wonder about where im from because im curious, i do actually think and i would want more in life then just living an unconcious dribble of progressing the human race no more then kicking it in the ribs.
But,
I agree with you, personally i also couldnt give a shit about progressing the human race. I say this because we still do not have the means to yet leave this planet for the further reachs of the planet, we do not yet have the capabilities to live off this earth, and i doubt we will manage, so we humans are screwed…
so live life to the fullest and enjoy every second.
Koudos to you, Elloise. <3
elloise and thenameofyournextgod:
Humans are screwed because of people like you who do not “give a shit”. Indifference is a vile enemy of human survival. People who do not care area waste of space.
The reason people “spend so much of their life wasted wondering why we are here” is because life is not worth living without a purpose. If life has no meaning, no goal, no purpose, then suicide looks pretty rational. However, my life does have purpose and I live for it.
The ignorance saddens me.
*are a not area sorry
Kathleen, you strange person. =S
im still wondering what part of ” so live life to fullest.” you didnt understand? i dont know about Elloise, its her choice. But me, i just created my own purpose to live. Enjoyment. and I said i dont care about progressing the human race. I dont think you understood the metaphor and the depth behind that statement.
By the way, I will just point out that you basically contradicted yourself in that last comment because you didnt understand my statement. x) Oh well =]
thenameofyournextgod, you reprobate.
Oh…forgive me for not understanding your intellectually advanced metaphorical statement…I did not realize you were such a deep individual, and clearly you are since Enjoyment is your purpose for living. What a wonderful life you must have! I hope I am not misunderstanding you by asking this question, but what do you do if, God forbid, life does not succeed in fulfulling your Enjoyment?
By the way, I will just point out that I am basically being sarcastic. x) oh well indeed…
omg, this is the third person to reply in the way of “I know you are, but what am I?” sort of manner. cant you lot think of anything better to say? cant u actually make a intelligent statement? why is the world filled with awkward people like your acting now? This is a way more intriguing question then the one on offer now!
In answer to your most blatently obvious question, if my purpose is to seek enjoyment then surely im actually “seeking enjoyment.” it means im looking for a good time, for something fun. It means im doing something! if what im doing doesnt suit it, then move on and look for the next thing? if by the end of my life there is nothing fun at all! then yes, god forbid, he sure did a shit job of making the earth.
you still havent said what you think your purpose is yet. I bet it actually fills in to my statement, but you still havent even addressed that. Actually think about what must happen to progress the human race and you may realise what im talking about.
btw, dont bother replying till u have something worth saying. if its something stupid like, “your so called purpose is bullshit” or soemthing along stupid, meaningless lines like that. then please spare me.
Get off your damned high horse…if you think you are so intelligent then write like it (“omg”, “btw”…are you twelve?)
Here is a question worth answering for you: Do you have a moral standard and if so, what is it?
If your answer is something like “whatever brings me pleasure” then your an idiot.
wtf? if you think im twelve then you are surely misguided. It also shows me you havent read the posts on this discussion. If you noticed i typed like this before and then when i was asked to change i did. It shows i respected Spades and so i comformed. so far i do not respect u and have no intention of making a neat typing style.
do i have a moral standard… i dont think anyone could possible bring the answer of “whatever brings me pleasure” unless they misunderstood the question. Which leads me to believe you dont konw what you were just saying. i have pretty high moral standards actually. i show respect for those that deserve it. i follow other’s rules where i must. i do not bully or mistreat people, i do not smoke, i cant go on, its too boring.
hmm.. after much thought, i cant really say anything back to your last statement because it involves telling you what my decisions would be in many different situations and why. do not tell me i am wrong. i can state something but there is always some catch 22 to whatever we say, there will be a situation where i would not follow what i said because it would be wrong in my opinion.
I still fail to understand the last part of you comment, but oh well.
Okay…that is mature of you. I do not judge people’s character over online discussions, so no offense…
Anyway, I have not read this entire post because it is really long and I do not really want to take that much time to read every statement, so sorry if you have already answered this, but I will ask anyway, are you and atheist?
I would assume you are not because you say you have moral standards; I do not believe true atheists can have a moral standard (although, a moral standard is inescapable, which invalidates their argument…)
I do genuinely apologize for the pissy comments, but I am unapologetically passionate about certain subjects and sometimes find it hard to appropriately contain my oppinion.
Yes, I will admit that I am one of those pissy people quite a bit of the time. Sorry.
As for my superiority complex, yes I know. x) Although unlike what Wikipedia says, I do not have this because of my own inferior feelings. I have this because from experince I have found that 80% of the population of most countries are completely stupid. So until proved otherwise, everyone is stupid. Bad logic, but it works very well when driving also. If you think someone is an idiot you will watch them and may avoid accidents.
Back on course, no. I am not an Athesist. I have feelings that Christianity is a complete hoax and that almost all religions are. But this is not the same as believing that no religion is the truth. It would take too long to explain in words. Sorry.
Just so we are clear. I’m writing properly to you. Enjoy and understand its meaning ; 3 (yes I still like the cute face though)
When I said I do not care about progressing the human race. I am referring to the fact that we must all continue to live to allow for those later in life to be born and for those that have found/created data which is picked up by others and then allows advances in medicine or technology. For example, I am very unlikely to be a world famous creator of the cure of cancer, but I hate the feeling that I am just another dot in the line of time that leads to the person who does. Maybe it goes back to my terrible superiority Complex, but I hate feeling insignificant. Sorry.
NoYNG
This is nice, civil. I actually completely relate to the hatred of feeling insignificant (and the stupid population statistic…), but why do you think all religions are hoaxes,especially Christianity. After all, aren’t religions, in a way, a stand against insignificance?
And, even if you are “just a dot on the line” that leads to someone “significant”, that does not neccesarily make you insignificant. Personally, I do not belive significance is measured by great deeds towards general humanity.
Sorry, can’t be long, I’m in the middle of something.
I’m glad we are at some sort of truce (I hope).
As for religion, I suppose it because after thinking for a long time on it (too much spare time) there must be reasons why the bible was made if it is not a true holy object. Although there are many variations, they all lead to one major concept. Humans are weak minded, We require something more and “bigger” then us to feel safe, to give us “peace of mind” if you must. I hate to make myself sound patronizing but I really can’t think of anyother form of explaining at the moment. It is similar to a baby or a youg child holding on to a blanket or a stuffed teddy. They want something there, something to allow them to feel safe. Some people cannot live with there being nothing past death, nothing more to live then living life day by day. Religion fills that gap. It gives you a reason to live, it gives you a greater being that is everwhere that allows you to feel safe all the time in the knowledge that it is always there with you. It gives humanity hope of something better, Heaven. The bible’s instructions also show us how to act as good human beings and what to do in soem situations. It teachs morals. (This is why I do not say I am atheist, if we were all christians then life would pretty good, but it will not happen) If we all followed any “one” religion then we would live peacfully and pretty well, but… not happening.
As for insignificance, the thought of me being someone that helped lead to the great creator of the cure for cancer does not appeal. I did nothing. I would not be mentioned, I would not be known. I will most likely also not know that I was in that chain of people leading to the man who has done a great feat and there is no garentee that I am in that chain. So despite not caring about the progression of the human race, etr. It does not mean I will kill myself to prevent it. It just means I’m not thinking baout the future, I suppose I literally do not care because there would be nothing I can do to change that anyway.
From these depressing thoughts you can probably tell I have too much time to think and (not yet known if its an actual medical problem but it seems ot be in my family) depressional problems. I’m wierd and I know it. x)
NoYNG
It’s okay, I think everyone is a little weird and those who do not admit it are simply in denial (and boring).
Well, at the risk of you losing all (if any) respect you had of me, I will say strait up, I am a Christian, I believe in the Bible and I believe Jesus is my Savior.
However, I do not discourage questioning my faith. I find your (and mostly everyone else’s)comments on this blog very insightful. While I am not indecisive, I am open minded. Truth is my goal.
As for the baby and blanket analogy, I can not say I disagree. In a way, I think that is what God intended it to be for His followers and I do not view that as a problem. I also don’t think that sooo many people would feel this need to have some form of a Creator or Guide if it was not true.
In regards to the human progression, I’m not sure I follow exactly your point, but I don’t think it is beneficial to worry about your link in the chain. It’s best to do all you can in the present, not the future.
Dont worry, I don’t lose respect for you. One of my friends down the road is christian and I dont feel any different towards him. =]
Also I agree with you that because so many people believe it and follow the christian faith that it must be true. But I suppose what gets me is what I said earlier. 80% of almost every country is what we would call “slow and weak minded.” I do not mean this as in christian is for dummies. I just feel that it helps contribute towards why so many need something to follow and need christianity in their life.
Also I realise im being disrespectful here, but I need to post this somewhere and if not here then where else? x)
If Bible = Rhubarb, then we would all be following the Rhubarb.
It just happens to be the religion that succeeded. Back to the majority theory. Because there are so many different Religions, it makes me think that maybe we naturally want a higher being or we are searching for this “god” that is out there. But so far all the religions are based from humans and not from the higher being. I also believe that even if we cannot see the higher being. It would make itself known. So for me, I dont see christianity as the answer.
I wont talk about it now because i need to go sorry, but there is also the long lost question of our purpose, which when summarized has 2 options.
1. We are the part of the chaing leading to something later in life that is worth going through life for.
2. God made us for his own purpose, eg, to love, for entertainment, to torment, to watch and take interest in or just for the hell of it.
either way you look at it, we are pretty pointless unless the new beginning starts soon. It is this pointlessness that makes me feel that religion is wrong.
NoYNG
I understand the Bible=Rhubarb thing, but here’s where I think its misunderstood: The Bible contains more than “the religion that succeeded”, it contains (even atheists would agree, though not in regard to the supernatural) historical documentations, Facts.
Religions like mormonism, buddhism, even catholicism, etc…have ‘man based’ religions, i.e. they sprung from humans who happened to gather enough followers to become a ‘religion.’ (some would say cult)
Christianity has a history, a foundation, more than a revelation to a man (John Smith, Buddha…) The only other religion than can boast this is Islam, which, in my oppinion, is just a misguided version of Christianity (Christianity follow Isaac, Isam follows Ishmael)
As for the pointless thing, the fact that we exist, which I believe we truly do, gives us a point a purpose, even if that purpose is as meagre as to merely keep existing.
God is sometimes strange, irrational, and unorderly to human perspectives; however, a lack of comprehension does not affect validity.
And, what do you mean by “the new beginning”?
There are facts in the bible, but what I disagree with is how there are claims of prophercies coming true all the time. If something is written, no matter how absurd it will eventually come true. Maybe not in a litteral way but through some form or manner it will (I state this with no time limit in mind). For example there are those searching the bible for hidden words. They believe they saw a pattern of “Twin Towers Destroyed.” But if we think logically, this is a translated english version so that cannot be relied on. They also did the same with Winnie the Pooh and came across “two world wars.” So to me, I dont believe any of these prophercies.
As for the facts of the Bible. Yes a man named Jesus existed around that time who was born in Bethlehem. But there was also another few thousand people called Jesus and Im pretty sure that some of them lived in Bethlehem too. There were also many prophets, a lot of street prophets too. Someone was bound to be called Jesus in this job. Its shows that if you search hard enough you can almost find anything. The same could go with Budhhasism but nobody has really done that much research into it.
What annoys me about Christinaity, not christians, just the religion;s basis. It is way too flimsy. All I have to do is bring in the theory of “i forgot the name” where you think about how nothing behind you exists.
It is complicated to explain in a comment, but I will try.
If you face forwards. You see what is in front of you, for example a chair. By looking at that chair you are forcing it to exist. If you then turn around 180 degrees. You cannot see the chair, you do not know that it is there. The chair now does not need to exist, it may not exist anymore. If you use a mirror or turn around again and look again at the chair, then you are again forcing it to exist and therefore it does. An experiment to test this theory was thought of, but the test itself can never be tested otherwise we would be forcing a result and the whole point of the theory would be lost. The test is; put an animal that requires food and water to live in a box that has no holes. Then put that box itself into another box that is air tight. In theory that animal should die. But only if we go an open the box or look inside. If we never look inside the box then there is never any need for the animal to die. So by not looking in the box the animal inside could still be alive. The moment we look inside, by logic, it is forced to die and so we will see it dead. The moment we do an autopsy we force the animal to have been dead for however long we left it in the box and there fore the experiment will have proved nothing. It is theory that is similar to christianity because when we try to go and find god we come back to the same answer of he is everywhere and within us all. If we try to connect with God then we come back to how God works in mysterious ways and how he may answer you without your knowledge of the answer. Christianity is based on knowing nothing.
Im sorry if that sounds like im being disrespectful. I dont know how to put that theory into better words.
as for the last part of each comment, forget it x) hehe
NoYNG
Well that sounds like a very long, complicated explanation to say that Christianity is circular, and it is.
But, tell me if you can think of any worldview, state of mind, or existence theory that is not ultimately circular in the end.
It all comes back to whatever one holds to be the highest authority, and if that authority is true, then circularity is justified and correct.
I admit there are a LOT of cooks in the world claiming that the Bible prophesied the world wars and 9/11 and such, but I am not one of them. The Bible interprets the Bible; the prophesies of the Bible are about Jesus Christ alone. Not to go into doctrinal details, but those prophesies have been fulfilled, easily, without any contortional textual readings by wistful wannabe believers.
This probably seems like a dissapointing one-sided answer, but if you take time (and it does take time) to open-mindedly study the Bible and its teachings the rational causes and effects are undeniable. It makes sense.
Lol, The song that happens to be on is “Heaven is a Place On Earth.”
I am opening my mind to your answer of that everything is circular in the end if things, that it all depends on the opinino of what is the highest authority. I suppose I can understand it, but… doesn’t that put and end to life? If we just agree everything is circular and that it is all in the eye of the beholder then it is possible to figure out everyone. To know that person based on their belief and their opinions, their actions. Not exactly down to the very last situation’s reaction of course. But it sounds like giving up. I really don’t want to live in a world where everything is as simple as that. It would be boring and no doubt we wouldn’t have got where we are now.
If I now change my opinion to human beings as the highest lifeform that I know of and I agree that everything is circular. Then from now on I should help each human like it MUST be done and it should bring me great happiness. I could still do this, but I would be happy from helping people and seeing their smiles, not because my belief told me that I need to. Nothing is as simple as everything being Circular. Except the mathamatical properties of circles x)
Accepting that Christianity is circular along with many other things is just showing that it is limited. If something is not limited then we will not end up where we always are.
While I say that, I realise that when thought out longer, you would end up where I am in life. At this time, for many months, I have been looking for a new hooby, something new and exciting. But if I add that concept to what I have just said, then it looks like I will need to create a new hobby. Everything around us is limited, Skateboarding, no matter how you look at it, is boarding on a plank of wood with wheels. Sailing, no matter where you sail and how you look at it, it is riding around in a boat on the waves for a bit. Piloting an aircraft, no matter how you look at it, even with all the flips and the dives,, it comes back to the same thing. You are inside a big metal engine that flies and a flip is the same as any other flip.
So basically, I have rambled without a true meaning so far.
But to put everything in to concept. I dont know if you hace read the earlier comments yet, but dont worry about reading them if you dont want to. But Ive mentioned I want something more in life, as you can see. So far, Im limited. If it is true that everything is circular leading ti the same thing, then my opinion of life will sink even lower. But I believe that there is something more, something exciting and something without limits that is not referred to as heaven.
Why can’t that new exciting thing without or beyond limits be heaven? It is for me.
Humans are limited, body and mind, that is why everything goes in circles for us. But souls will not be limited after death. Heaven defies human laws, it is beyond our finite reason (It is not a place on earth lol).
I think, and I may be wrong, that you just don’t want to die to find heaven; you want it here and now. Sorry this sounds pessimistic, but you will never find something new and exciting in this life.
However, that does not mean you can’y enjoy a hobby. It doesn’t have to be new to be exciting and fun. Personally, I LOVE scuba diving. No matter how many times I go under water, it never loses its appeal.
I could write more but I have to go….Hope it mamkes some sense
it makes sense in a nonsense making way x)
this is what annoys me. How would you know that heaven is there to go to? You have just been told about it in some book written by people thousands of years ago when they also believed that carrots were the fruit of the devil and that pigs were creatures of satan. Some extreamist Jews still have this opinion, but most will just follow the rules without actually thinking that Pigs are Satan’s animal. Thats fine I suppose.
But seriously, If you stand back from christianity and think about “What if god isnt there?” then you realise how silly it really looks. Some people wrote about some fantasy hero and spread the word to millions of people to make some Pope who is the representative of this hero and higher being wealthy and fat. I realise thats a very harsh way to look at it. But seriously, without the faith in God, everything falls on its face. As I said, Jesus cannot be claimed as proof of christianity, it is all on God himself. With god, there are sceptical things such as why certain things such as contraception and abortion and looked and frowned upon ( I already know why they think this I took a GCSE on it because my school only had the half RS GCSE which is focused on only Christianity) and then Without God, you realise that it all trips on its own words. When i say that, It may seem, “well that is obvious.” But i mean there is nothing to fall back onto, there is no something else that will the nprove God and bring him back in the picture again. once he’s out, he is well and truly out. Which is why, the moment you search for the truth and think about the possibilities of there beign no God you realise that there is no reason for there to be a God, there is no need for him now. There is no obvious reason to go to church other then to make sure that God is happy with us. But if God was like humans, if he was thoughtful and reasonable. He would realise that making people drag themselves out of bed early on a sunday is just mean. Especially when you give them NO proof of your being there to give the service any reason. So now Faith comes into play again. It is faith behind God, it is faith behind Jesus Christ and his ways. But then we critise other religions for having no Saviour that is record to have lived. If Buddhasism had a buddha who was named and choose a place to live, then they would find a person with that name and in that time period and in that town because if it was an odd name no one would follow that religion anyway because we are such thoughtless creatures, us humans. So if we now go to a child who is frightened at night because of the belief there is a monster under their bed. What proof do they have that it is there? None. Do we believe our children? No. will they be upset and try to prove it is there? Most likely.
The same questions can be answered about christianity:
So there are christians who follow this God and claim we should too, or else we go to hell and suffer eternal pain and terror. Do they have any proof? None. Do we believe them? No. Will they be upset and try to convert us? Most likely. Ofcourse, it could be Yes to the second question, in which case your a christian xD lol and following that second question makes the second answer, yes, seem a little… off, shall we say?
Ive just made quite a large and bold statement about there being no proof. So I’d better back that up so i dont seem totally stupid.
Jesus, we discussed, its not a reliable source and could be claimed by any other religion, which christianity claims are fake.
God, refuses proof because it is all on Faith.
The bible, is written by people with the words of God in their mind, but then we go back to the second statement.
Souls/ ghosts, I will believe when i see a ghost, or when one happens to move something, etr. Until then, I will wait for scientific Proof, and I will be converted.
Other parchments or scrolls, Same as the Bible.
I think thats all, if theres a source Ive missed, please tell me.
Sorry to be so Bold, but im moving on in my arguements, there basically a new one per comment, and ive had lots of comments, so all the nicely nicely ones are through with now x)
NoYNG
PS, yes very pessimistic x) Its basically saying that if your intellectual enough to be bored of Earth and its properties, then commit suicide to reach heaven faster, but then you commited suicide and you go to hell. in which case you must wait to die of old age or murder/manslughter. And that is VERY VERY boring, I would know.
The only “proof” I, and many others, have of Christianity is by revelation, which is wholly ineffable. Unfortunately I cannot give you my revelation, sorry, but only God can…
You seem, um, bitter maybe?(No offense, just an observation) You seem to think the world should be constantly pleasing you (ie keeping you from boredom) but what gives you the gall to assume that?
I just don’t understand one thing about your worldview. You say you are a relatively moral person, but why? Why should you stick to any morals if there is no final consequence for you actions. “Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you may die” Thats what I would do if I didn’t believe in God, but I do and I live my life accordingly. I live my life, thankful that one I will die. Because I want to die; this world is filled with human shit and I want to get away from it.
You seem to want to be given proof of God’s existence, but you see it all through skeptics eyes.
Its true that pessimists are never dissapointed, but they are also never satisfied. Skeptics may never be duped by lies, but they may never realize the truth.
Hmm….
You suddenly went all suicidal at the end of your comment there…
anyway, Sorry, i suppose it may be my typing style of way of speaking, but I dont mean to “Demand” the world to please me, I would like to find something “Inside” of the world that is fun and exciting and all the amazing things that would make life worth living.
Ive been told that when you find true love, that is when you suddenly Desire to live to the fullest and love life because you are with that person. Ive been told that having children is what makes live worth living and makes you work harder because you love them. There are things in life worth living for like special moments, but they usually require other people there as well. So when put to a finer point, People are what make life worth living. In no part of that is God needed. You could argue that God is needed because he made us and he mades us reproduce, but he didnt make dinosaurs and they also reproduced. So here is another example of why I dont believe in God.
As for being bitter, yes you could say that.
Morals? Because I believe that humans should still have respect and show that they are not so low as to stoop to the levels of lower creatures. For example, Kicking someone when on the floor, I will never do it. If im in a foreign country I will follow their rules because it is their country (though I will admit that i disagree with the situation that happened with the teddy bear named Mohamed).
I believe that using Hostages is dishonourable, I believe that being an extreamist is stupid, eg I hate feminists and I hate riots that have a pointless meaning, If there is a genuinly bad thing happening then sometimes it is needed, but a lot of the times there are riots, its for nothing. Following Morals, shows that you are better then someone else, I know that sounds bad in a way, but it really pisses me off what some people will do.
As for looking at God’s proof through skeptical eyes, well… Ofcourse? Otherwise I would be just like a christian Believing it? I think there is a major difference between believing, and knowing. That is what separates most christians to non-christians.
In writing this, I will not be so blind as to miss a major shot in the foot. I dont know if you would have noticed or not. But when I say that in my morals I believe something is right or wrong, it could be compared to Christianity. But I would argue that I have proof that any man or animal can kick and fight while their opponant is down, I can argue that there is reason not to do certain things. But , then we have the reason of this is how we are brought up in life. Christians could argue that too, but then you lose the battle of proving the other wrong because you are openly admitting to being brought up like that, and therefore cannot help but be a christian. If people weren’t brought up as christians, I wonder how many there would really be in the world today.
NoYNG
Ok…we are never going to agree, that’s fine, I guess. Agree to disagree. I hate, as much as I assume you do, people that force their oppinions/theories/ideals down your throat, no matter how true they may be, or how wrong I may be. But, this still interests me…
This question is probably getting on your nerves by now, but WHY do you follow any morals?
Put another way, would you judge (by which I mean, criticize or disagree) with someone who followed an opposing moral? Because if you do, which I would find hard to believe if you did not, then by what standard?
Think about it; if there is no universal moral standard, then there is no right and wrong, and there must be a right and wrong.
………………………….
If you’re trying to make me type, “You can’t Explain morals.” Then forget it, because that could be used as something to say that God also cannot be explained xD
I could explain my morals, but it would take way too long.
Ive already said that twice now. And i started in the last comment, but couldnt be bothered to continue.
Why follow morals? Well, as I said above, “Morals? Because I believe that humans should still have respect and show that they are not so low as to stoop to the levels of lower creatures.” By this statement, I am saying that a human that follows morals shows that it has discipline enough to do so and shows that it has enough intellect to show that it has thought out a situation and decided and wrong and right, those that do not follow morals show lack of thought towards certain situations and show no discipline. This makes you a better human being, that has more use of its brain power and shows it.
Following morals is what we should do otherwise chaos will rule and we will all be stooping to tactics of those that anyone can acomplish, rather then doing something individual and being more thoughtful.
Hard to put in words, but I hope you should understand. If not, Then you will never understand =\
By the way, I have already explained (in a lengthy comment) that one of my theories about the bible is where the bible is just a book of guides that some nice person made to try and make humans more civilised. Im not re typing, just search through if you want to see. Sorry.
NoYNG
Ok seriously,
how can anyone say that people who live their life by God are better people or more peaceful… How many people have died and are still dying right now in stupid wars over religion??
Yeah.. thats what I thought.
And I really, reeaallly cannot understand how people can believe in (any) God. It makes absolutely no sense. There is no proof whatsoever. None.
Oh some prophecies came true… riight… prophecies that some humans wrote a couple thousand years ago.
And morals… come on. Do you really think that humans in any society couldn’t come up with their own (moral) rules??
Religion is all about money and power. It always has been.
I’m not judging anyone for believing in whatever but don’t make it look like God is the more ‘logical’ explanation. It’s not.
It’s a belief, not a knowledge!
Oh and, there is no ‘universal truth’. There is no universal right or wrong. We came up with it. We constructed it.
Hmm, we both on a similar brainwave. Dont look at my comment as a counter argument because I am not arguing. But I will say that if everyone did follow God, the world would be better “because there would be no wars and there would be no violence and fighting and gambling and stuff.” But unfortunatly not everyone will follow the lie that is God. Just a quick side note ; )
And damn, is no one else commenting? =o
Okay, i’m back (computer problems–I don’t do technology well)
This is for Josie (or whoever else wants to answer)
If there is no universal truth/standard, then there can be no morals. But there MUST be morals or humanity would cease to exist.
“The Abolition of Man” by, yes, the Christians go-to guy after Paul (and God/Jesus, of course), C.S. Lewis, who was once an avid atheist and religions aside, a true genius intellectually. If you haven’t read it, then read it and then decide if there is no universal standard.
If not to die for anything, than to live for nothing; the end has always justified the means. In the initial argument, as I understand it, the author wishes to describe the ultimate form of existence as a state of mind in which the person focuses all energies of his/her life into creating bodily serenity (“Without God, ultimate worth comes back to bodily life itself… Remove God from your world view and everything that matters gets redirected to life.”). So it seems that the author would have us, humanity, “explained” (excuse my use of the term) or summed in the fact that we are ( “We simply are.”). So my only question upon this stance is why not live. Because being logically transcends not being?
Who can know the future? Yes, in our lives there may be pleasure, but can anyone or anything guarantee a life of unbroken sensual joy? Certainly Not. So does what pleasure we might encounter tip the scales to counteract what ills might befall us. Why not accept the death penalty rather than a life of imprisonment. What is it to us to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune when we could simply to rest retreat. Certainly to be nothing must precede pain, harm, turmoil, War.
So if to die is nothing and to live everything then why concern ourselves with the existence of others. I think it quite a detraction from the ideal that being is supreme to say that what is pleasurable is wrong; is this not best to do that which makes us best? By what standard should value humanity so much that we do not also see people as a tool to the betterment of life. Sex is what exhilarates me, heightens my experience, therefore what problem does rape postulate. What is the problem with human experimentation. With genocide, homicide, suicide, tell me by what idea, theory or standard you would apply value to human life?
What is rationality that it should give to us value? Are we not just advanced animals. Technology is certainly proof enough that we have power like none other. Still, because the matter of our body, the inner systems, the brain waves function and act differently, what is it that we should see animals as less. We are animals. We see it fit to devour cows, yet find it repulsive to devour humans. What is the difference. What in chromosomes entitles us to value?
Why do people care for other people?
Why should I concern myself with survival? Of me or my race. Something will come along and fill the place of highest being.
Can anyone tell me why I should NOT KILL MYSELF.
I will comment your discussion because anything I say may tilt the scales in the wrong directions.
Do not kill yourself, I cannot give garentee’s, and I cannot give self assurance but I will ask you dont.
Whether that statement was serious or just an add-on to your argument, i do not care.
When humans think beyond what we are supposed to know, only suffering can come. There are limits and there are things stopping us. When we search for the higher being, he is not there and it makes us question our value and purpose. Someone stated to be alive was our purpose (I disagree) but i feel we all have a purpose somewhere and sometime. If you die now, you will never know what that purpose was. You will not know whether that was a purpose worth living for, it might be the one thing in life that was waiting to make life meaningful.
Seeing as you haven’t mentioned it, I wont state certain things. But maybe we should not put this the perspective of why you should live for yourself. Some people must live to keep the world going, and keep it the happy place it (sometimes) is. Friends, Family, Work Colleges, secret admirers and more, if you died now, they would be miserable. It will be an irreplaceable hole in each person. It will be a large weight everyone’s shoulders. So why do something that you might regret in the future and that which would also cause great suffering to those around you? If like me, you still want to die. It is an open admitance of just how lazy human beings are.
Do not join the ranks of people like me, lazy, asshole, permanently questioning and depressed with the answers. It’s not worth it, I’m telling you now. Go live a happy life with the only thought being, “Im here to enjoy myself and make others happy.”
NoYNG
im tired of all this religous crap not everyone believes in religon ya know so why does all the answers that people arnt sure of have to be religous,
they say heaven is beyond the stars right? and hell is hell on earth?
what if you stay on the ground you die?
say you die on earth you forever haunt the earth there for hell on earth, what if you die beyond the clouds your not stuck on earth are you? i dont believe there is a god but i do believe there is somthing else that we dont know. everyone has there own beliefs and who’d wanna take my side im just a guy that stays to my self everything i learn stays right in front of my eyes and i observe everything specially the actions we take ,noone really concentrates anymore they just go with the flow.i have many many thoughts on the world but the question is are you sain enough to deceide whats right or wrong?what is sain? years ago i could tell you that the earth had more then one demension and you’d think i was crazy now were just finding out its true and the more we learn the less we know.
In response to NoYNG. No, I refuse to live life unconscious, though it may be the torment of my mind, I refuse to die before I’m dead.
By what do you judge the limits of our inquiry? What is stopping us from seeking, or more so, finding something beyond what we perceive as the immediate realm? If one adheres to the teachings of science, and all the knowledge formulated by measurements and calculations, obviously one will find his road-block. However if one adheres to the philosophical realm, we might understand the problem a well as the solution. It is blatant ignorance to write off such an issue as this under the mere guise that inquiry is harmful. Does not doubt lead to inquiry, and inquiry to truth.
There seems to be no consistency in your statements. You say that you deny the claim that human-beings are simply to be, yet you offer in its place nothing except an abstract form of fate, you call it “purpose”. As far as I can understand atheistic thought and theory, the world, and all life, was born out of chance. There was no director, only the matter that reacted with matter. Yet now, in a world of complete chance, you speak of “purpose”? THIS is beyond my knowledge. Fatalism is nothing that correlate to atheism. Furthermore, based on this feeling of purpose, you claim assertively that humans have a duty to the world and the survival of the species, and even to treat other humans with respect as to not harm them even though they are just as purposeless as I am. I cannot live based on a feeling. And as for the regret of the future, all one need do is look far enough down the timeline of humanity to remember that everyones survival rate drops to zero. Assuredly, Dead men feel nothing, not even regret.
So once again, what do you have to die for? Does your end justify your actions of goodness, charity, kindness and human decency? Or are these actions just triggers of endorphins and dopamine? Why do anything if it is all for nothing.
And to such a question, my only proposition to such an eternal problem, and potentially to your laziness, and my suicidal nature is simply theism.
I am more than happy to discuss questions, if your willing to share yours and put up with mine.
Lol XD
i was merely stating my opinions on why i dont think suicide is the options for other people, i wasnt going into anything deep on purpose , read “Seeing as you haven’t mentioned it, I wont state certain things.” meaning i do not want go into the whole details of life.
also i dont know how your mind works, but your commentwas a mess of subjects with no correlation =S
anyway, its le weekend and im in no mood to discuss now, i’ll comment again later or somehting. But when i read “I cannot live on a feeling.” I suddenly felt a large amount of pity, i dont mean it insultingly, but just think for a moment. all our actions are cone because of feelings. your arguing with me because u feel u must, because u must show me i am wrong, im typing at the moment to share the fact that you need to stop thinking about the deep thought.
you say “I refuse to live life unconscious” but in my time of thinking. there are those who are happy, and there are those that are not happy. The majority of people who are happy people not wanting to die are those who do not think about these things, they are those that react on feeling, they are those that enjoy life and do not worry about these things? wouldnt you agree? the proof that those who think deeply are suicidal is u and me and many others. so i will not talk about anythign deep at this moment in time, i am telling why you should not die, im not telling you the answrs to your questions.
btw while i type about how those who are happy are free thinkers and dont worry, the term “unaware” and “stupid” does come to mind, but seriously, when you’re happy and you’re unaware, you’re happy and the generation we are in is not going to see the outcomes of anything further in time to make the world a bad place.
btw, the whole purpose thing is to keep suicidal people from dying, it is not an answer to life. I would have thought that was pretty damn obvious. Plus, im not atheist.
im just picking random parts from your comment to asnwer, does my end justify the actions we do? or was it just the hormones of our body making us feel light headed? well, so far in life thats the only thing i knwo that can make us feel “happy”. and that sort of statement, ive said to myself many times, “why do anything when you just die and nothing changes, nothign that i do will affect anyone, nothing i do has any true purpose” blah there endless add-ons to that. that is a very… meaningless train of thought. If we knew what our “purpose” was, or “why” we do anything, would that make it worth doing? would that make you happy? does that change anything at all? does knowledge really make life worth living? a Brain that is kept in a container and can still think, but has no form of communication. If it knew everything, it knew why we were, why we are, and what we are to be. are you telling me that it is happy?
Science makes life easier, it does not make it worht living, it does not help us in the way to the answer to life. As you said if we use philosophical reasoning, we may understand. But that is limited.
Science is limited. I will explain some other time, because ive typed way too much for now. hints = think of the word chance and how things work by chance.
maybe arguing with you will be satisfactory xD just dont waste the life that you have, maybe do soemthign with it, even if it is pointless, try it, i dare you. ;)
NoYNG
PS, there things ive said which might be unrelated and wrong, but im half asleep i’ll correct later -.- tell me what is wrong and i’ll change it.
Questions:
Do you have any defense for the existence of “purpose”?
Is there a way you believe humans should live?
If so Why?
If not Atheist, what might you be particularly?
P.S. I cannot believe that the odds scientists give us of the earth arising out of such catastrophic events as those that formed the universe are not pure chance and luck.
P.P.S. If you state that things were directed by laws, from whence did the laws arise?
Hey i’ve been off of this for a long time.
i dont feel like reading all of the shit i’ve missed. But i assume its more of people being like “Yah god!”, etc.
TheNameOfYourNextGod — i assume you still are arguing against the belief of an afterlife =D
I want those of you who truely believe in god to ask yourself these few questions. These 3 questions are the most horrifying thoughts if you truely sit down and interpret them for a good while. I want you to put what ever you currently believe behind yourself and just think about these 3 major questions that have shaped my life.
1. Why am i alive
2. what happens once i die
3. Why is there anything
Please don’t just read these and comment right away. Leave your computer free your mind of everything and just think of the 3 questions. You know you have successfully interpreted these questions when you experience a feeling beyond on words. It is beyond fear. It is more terrifying than anything. It suddenly strikes you that this could be it. And everything ends.
“Nothing starts from nothing; so why the hell is there anything”
Quote by myself
-Spades?
why the hell is there a question mark after my name.
-Spades
Life… It’s a desperate search for an answer that doesn’t have a proper question, nor the means of properly defining (logically) the wantonness to know the impossible. We don’t know. We can’t KNOW, but emotional attachment to abstract idealism, fear of the great unknown, the need to belong to something greater than oneself (even if in a purely theoretical sense), and perhaps even the need to define oneself against the universe (plus whatever other neurological elements are behind the attempt at conscious understanding of the end all be all) drive our search forever onward. So here’s the answer you’ve been searching for: you’re right. christians, jews, buddists, hindus, muslims, wiccians, atheists, etc… you’re all right, because it’s an exercise in futility to righteously proclaim that you KNOW. to KNOW is “to perceive or understand as fact or truth; to apprehend clearly and with certainty”…. this, in relation to the spiritual, is impossible and futile. So, onward you soldiers of the spiritual realm, and fight your war against yourself. all that’s important is that we treat one another by the (almost universal) religious code of peace…. but this too, as history clearly defines, is……. yep. impossible and futile. But, we all can dream, right?
-“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” (Matthew 7:12).
-“Do not unto others which would cause pain if done to you” (5:15:17) (Hindu).
-“One should not extend harm to others which one would not wish for one’s self” (ad lib of Confucius).
-Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.” (Buddhist).
-I will be as careful for you as I should be for myself in the same need (quote from Homer’s Odyssey)
-“Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you.” (from Muhammad’s last sermon)
-“Love thy neighbor as thyself” (Leviticus 19:18). (From the Torah)
It seems that we all have at least something to agree upon… so there it is. the answer to it all. DON’T FUCK WITH HIM ‘CAUSE HE’S A GONNA FUCK WITH ME BACK…. or something like that.
-think about it-
Hey Spades,
yeh i was arguing with someone before, but he started his comment with “Why should i not commit suicide?” and ended on the same note, so I replied with reasons to live (not religious issues or anything) and then he has a go at me for trying to prevent another death. Oh well, I suppose I just didn’t do a good enough job because he’s not commented back.
As for “nothin’ ” yeah, you seem to religiously educated (if that’s the correct term). I think Spades (like myself) will have already noticed the similarity in religions. But your proof is good to have, thank you. It is always annoying me how some religions -points finger viciously at christianity- claim that their god or faith, etr, is better or more reliabe because they are the only ones who claim to have a son of god. Bullshit, jesus as such, was a prophet much like most of those of the other religions, claiming he is son of god makes no difference as there is no proof or evidence unless we commit suicide and see him in heaven, before then being plunged to hell because we commited suicide. Fuck, I hate religion.
Your quotes also make it hard to believe that there are wars at all, or to put it another way. We are not as religious as some may seem. america with its godly ways are out killing and occuping others with god as their back up, despite god secretly pointing a finger at them saying, “Oi! I said no killing, damn it!” and then there are the extreamist muslims who claim that they must please their faith, etr. Thats rubbish anyway, most muslims are fine and great people, its like, why the fuck are they doing it with such a strong belief in something that is so wrong. There are other religions with wars and conflicts, but they are not publicised as much so I am not as aware of them.
Hmm… another long and generally pointless comment,
If you learn one thing from this comment (writing to anyone here) stop fighting whether its for your god or your land or your honour. Put it behind you and think about what the world would be like iof everyone did that? If we all did it, there would be no reason to police the world, there would be no reason to attack non-believers, there would be no reason to show that you are better then someone else.
If you’re intelligent, you’ll know im talking the impossible, but at least lets keep the majority in this peaceful manner.
NoYNG
Ante Script concerning THe Name of Your Next God. Yes I did comment back, you never answered.
To begin, Irony is the only word that seem to pose itself when considering the Atheistic desire for Peace. On what basis do you justify and deplore actions that you should condemn the wars of men, whether religious or those of the stomach (greed, lust of power, money, women all the rare causes of war) Why do you see it fit that we should respect others and thereby adhere to a basic code of civility? If we are matter in motion then what is the difference between me catching a ball and me stopping your heart? besides the factor of nerve damage ( “feelings” we call them). Yes this is touching on the idea of morality, but as for what I can see you offer no foundation for such an idea, neither this nor rationality or even the logic you use (Though these ideas or enjoined distinctly). So if you would please answer my questions i would be happy to listen. But please don’t just tell me to move on with life, unconscious in the face of irrationality.
Have you noticed, that I havent even tried an intelligent answer back to your question, i have not touched on the matter of why or how in that last comment? Do you know why I didnt? If you dont know why, then please dont be stupid enough to pretend as if I did and start it up again as if im going to answer your particular “Why” and “How” questions.
As for not replyingg, yes I’m sorrry, I must have missed the email telling me. I apoligise.
Being 100% honest now, that last comment had no major thought in it, it had no thinking about how to prove things, no major reason of why we should live and no major reason for what reasons there may be. It was purely on feelings, (mainly because i saw Spade’s Comment and just wanted to reply ).
Alright, you know what. There is no reason why we are alive, there is nothing at the end of the road. The only major theory we have to the creation of the universe was the hydrogen cloud of immense size collapsing to gravity and imploding with enough energy to use nuclear fission and start to make helium and from there the universe is made. We dont have much more then that. This is but a theory, we do not yet know why or how. maybe there is not an answer. or maybe we are not there yet. So we wait. Same applies to god, religions, our reasons for living are all interlinked with these sort of subjects and seeing as we know NONE of the answers, we cant do much. You are basically asking me the God question, I cannot give the answer, I can merely give you my opinion and my look in these thoughts. So please give it up. I am not god yet.
By the way, remember that almost anything that gives an answer is theory, there is not much in our life that is fact. An example, (off the top of my head) how a plane’s wings are designed to create enough force downwards to help it lift off and keep a horizontal projection, that is a theory. We can put it in a wind tunnel, we can show it works and show why. But when brought back to basics, it is a theory. There might be another reason why that shape works, or there might be another reeason why our planes can fly. But the actually reason could be a long way from our understanding.
How does a spider hear without any out projecting ears? theory = it hears through the vibrations that hit the larger hairs on it’s legs. Hit the floor, the spider jumps. Cut off the spider’s legs, hit the floor, the spider doesn’t jump. Theory proven correct. Or is it? That is a very basic example, but it is a good one. What we hold in our lives, are theory that can be used, but it may not be the true reason to why it works.
ok Im bored of typing and im low on time. Bye for now.
Not answering your “Why” question, so give up.
NoYNG
School, Drugs, Jobs, Relationships
All designed to protect you from what you fear most…
i wish they worked for me.
-Spades
Religion is pure and utter shit that breeds hate, murder, fanaticism and trauma-based mind control.
Your books are a fucking hoax that were scripted to control the masses.
Go here:
http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com/
Very true Jinx666
-Spades
Sorry, in the last 20 posts did we all forget Brian hadn’t justified anything he said?
In the 2nd comment Rastaban asked you (BRIAN) to give examples of prophecies that have occurred. If you would like to spread the word of God, convert the masses and encourage us to read the bible, give us a delightful synopsis!
Oh, and if I’m not mistaken, Richard Hawkins read the Bible; I don’t think he was too enlightened.
Unfortunately, i originally had huge respect for Christians, certainly if they hold the 8 beatitudes and create such a trusting, optimistic community. From what you’ve been saying you’ve given the impression of a fool, i would take your arguments alot more seriously if you provided evidence. Atheism is taking a grasp, HAND IN HAND WITH THE DEVIL (:o), of this world because Christians don’t provide any justification. At least when i read of the Ontological Argument i can be encourage by Religious believer’s intelligence.
Spare your breath, i will not read the Bible – I’m currently digesting a book on the British Empire.
99% eh?
All u people who talk about god and your religious books do not know your minds because u have never been thought human psycology in ur schools educational institutions do not teach psycology because they fear that everyone will realise that their religions are just cooked up stories they use fear to brainwash young minds into believing that whatever is written in their religious books is real religion is the greatest cause of hatred & violence in the world *FREE YOUR MIND*
this good notion that we are stronger in Christ and our Christian faith has brought good inspiration to me and the other Christians in the world. I was raised in a Seventh-Day Adventist community in the Philippines.
However, when we say we rely to a Supreme Being, someone “miraculous”, something “spiritual” we are to say that we submit our human carnality to something “not-of-this-world”.
As a natural Atheist I believe in human capacity and limitations and that he also has the nature to cling to something stronger (as what the Bolsheviks and the Nazis did with their reigning heroes), but to be realistic I should view this “Christianity” as a phantasm for the weak and an apparatus for the strong.
Some people say “God did it!” “Christ gave me a baby!” “Mama Mary’s with us when we defeated the Ottoman fleet in Lepanto!”, but what they do not know is that “self-confidence” and “dedication” that has vrought them to victory over something they are against (a war historian wouldn’t say that ‘God wills it!”, but instead he will describe the politics and the war tactics of those who are involved).
But I couldn’t say we must wipe out religion as “God-haters” and “inculturists” wants it; without religion there is no knowledge, and without knowledge there is no Atheism. The “ancients” did what’s best for us, so there is tolerance. Only thing I ask of this: realize the “pessimistic/optimistic” view of this world and I hope we are encouraged to set our own values and reality in a sense that we wont thread on someones hoof. Lastly, if science and philosophy has something to do with your confusion and panic (like the theory – anyway just still a theory – that we came from apes) always remeber this: only keep Science for Life; If religion has pulled you in because of the “spiritual” impact of religious icons (those without intention to be beautiful) remember this: art is the only what is spiritual in this world – art for art’s sake.
i do not understand how a person can think god is real in this day and age. there is no evidence to there being a god just myths. at the end of the day if you think about it you’ll see that it is a miricale that we are alive. people beleive in god because they are brought up form a child to beleive init or they do not have any idea of how life was made and seek an answear and religion is one way for a person to have an answear on how to live there life, as they do not know what else to do. i do not have any thing against religoin i think it is a good way to live your life and socialise and be comfortable in the thouhgts that some one is always looking out for you. but religion has created wars and deaths from other peoples religion. an in my eyes i there is no religion for me to choose as there are so many, but there is one big issue and that is there is no proof.
Dear James,
Will you please notify me as to how life began, that is to say, rational, emotional and human life. I do not believe I am ignorant of such a thing. As far as I can understand the scientific understanding of the origins of life it seems to only lead to an infinite regression of events all having no origin. Your theory is just as if not more vague than the “far-out” idea of religion or a God. So essentially you are still lost in a vague theory as to your understanding of the universe. Your explanation for life is more theoretical than any religion and is more intangeable than God.
P.S. First of all do not assume the equality of all religions, they are vastly differing in teachings. Secondly, Be wary of accusing religion as the cause of wars and death, though some religions (Islam for example) might lend themselves towards such cruel acts. Many times, especially within Christianity, the truth has been twisted to justify and guise the true political intents of the warring parties. The crusades are an example of such misusings of religion.
P.P.S. It should also be noted that one of the leading causes of Hitlers war on the world, a well as the genocide of millions was due to the theory of Social Darwinism. Through science and eugenics they desired to create the perfect race and killed millions in their attempt.
There is much more to be said about politics and greed concerning wars, rather than religion.
The one thing that all of you share regardless of how much you clutch onto that which you have chosen believe to be the answer, is none of you actually know the answer. This is the only true statement that makes any sense and yet you all try to convince each other because you believe that you will somehow get rid of that nagging sense of uncertainty that has always haunted you, regardless of how much is has been disowned and how deep it has been shoved into the bowels of your unconscious as a result of your desperate attempts to rid yourself of it.
Isnt it obvious what to you all what there is to be learned out of all of this?
He convinced against his will of the same opinion still: Dale Carnegie
Dear Gordon,
And I suppose that as a skeptic to all worldviews your certain that all are uncertain, even your own.
We must take some things as truth. To discredit everything on the idea of uncertainty is to dispose of our sanity.
For example,We cannot be certain that our perception of the world is even remotely similar to that of others. For, even if we were to see others point of view it would still be through our own. So we can even be uncertain about the world we live in. Yet, sadly, whether it be real or not, we must cope with it; gravity still works, the sky is still up and waters still wet. All this to say that we can judge what is real and true because there is no other option. It is really no use living the lie of uncertainty because we are and that is all there is to it. Now, let us find why and who and how.
This is where the ambiguity comes into play, when the minds of men begin to formulate theories of the comsic world. Just like different theories and hypotheses’ in science they are all plausible, yet one must be right. This is found by looking toward, not the bias of the scientist but toward reality.
So it is with the religions of the world. It is not one giant pile of uncertain hypotheses’, all are seeking truth in and about this world and our reality, our one indubitable universal.
Therefore, we can look to reality to show us what is true, once we begin to accept the existance of the world we can begin to find these philosophical answers within it. With a reasoning eye we can see them. We may jumble them together, these religions,Yet one must be right. I’ve seen philosophies in relationship to real people in real life, and none seems as compatible as the one truth that is Jesus Christ.
So you may go on doubting everything; from the dirt and sky to humanity and the soul, and even beyond the universe, but your life will begin to crumble.
Dear B.Brodin,
I agree with your initial response to our skeptic. I’m not sure how you managed to simply discard science as a means to studying reality. Science, unlike religion, provides a much firmer foundation for anyone’s belief in their meaning than religion. Some
may find spiritual truthes in religion or the bible but with only, for example, 7% of the UK now Christian how can we conclude what Jesus talks of is the definitive meaning to our existence? Science provides answer that are seemingly, for a skeptic could
claim not definitive, truths – with justfication and reasoning and consequently something we can all accept.
Try to learn more about islam , i think it is good for all .
don’t look at moslems just read about it !
thank you my friedns .
have fun
I wish I was raised without crazy religion, believing in invisible people and so forth. Then I could just live, for the goodness of people, for life itself. But my upbringing haunts me with the ghosts and other lies I was taught. Jesus and all supernatural shit is double speak and fucks up thought itself.
WAZZZZZZZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I LOVE LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sorry mate i was bored. sorry!
HAHHHHAHHHAHHAHHHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
We exist to feel emotion for God
Someone from State College Craigslist told me to scroll down and leave a comment.
You stated that the naturalist view “Folds God into nature”… that’s not removing God. You are anti-religious, not anti-God. Naturalism doesn’t equal Atheism.
Beware those who say they know the truth, for they are blind. The truth will never be known in your lifetime.
philosophy corrupts the mind. It places ones own opinion above others, and in the history of mankind, when has that ever been benificiery? Why does it mtter if we’re alice. We can’t do anything about it, other then end it prematurely, and what does that accomplish. I am just content living my life and seeing what unfurls. I am an atheist, but that does not PROVE that god does not exist.
Sorry
Thus generics can have the exactly same active ingredients as the brand pills. substitute
Bye !!
________________________________
:) [url=http://calis.pharma-med.info/site_map.html] generic lowest prices[/url]